[5:03 PM] <photomatt> alright, <meetup>
[5:03 PM] <davidhouse> wahey.
[5:03 PM] <photomatt> first topic is "status of other projects"
[5:03 PM] <photomatt> is anyone here from elixir, theme browser, plugin authors, etc that would like tho show and tell?
[5:04 PM] <davidhouse> masq is an elixir coder, methinks.
[5:04 PM] * davidhouse pokes him into the middle of the cir
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> theme browser!
[5:04 PM] <davidhouse> oops
[5:04 PM] <masquerade> Not much new lately to tell, not sure what everyone has seen of it in the past, but publishing plugins to elixir is about finished
[5:04 PM] <masquerade> that is all
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> well, one of the theme browsers
[5:04 PM] <photomatt> could you give a broad overview of what elixir is?
[5:05 PM] <photomatt> then stevecooley can go
[5:05 PM] <stevecooley> k
[5:05 PM] <masquerade> http://wp-elixir.com/ <-- I do believe firas summarized it pretty well there
[5:06 PM] <stevecooley> nice
[5:06 PM] <io_error> If anyone HASN'T seen it yet, I've begun work on Bad Behavior 2.0, which is being completely redesigned from ground up. Comments and suggestions are needed at this time (or later).
[5:06 PM] <photomatt> io_error, link?
[5:06 PM] <io_error> Bug reports, too, but that's less critical, since it's mostly going to be fresh new code.
[5:06 PM] <io_error> http://error.wordpress.com/2005/10/25/bad-behavior-2-roadmap/
[5:07 PM] <io_error> BTW I have to hit the road here in about 45 minutes, and I'll be away from civilization for roughly 24 hours as I make my way back home.
[5:07 PM] <photomatt> safe travels
[5:07 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, you're up
[5:07 PM] <stevecooley> http://themes.wordpress.net/tv/
[5:07 PM] <io_error> (Of course, it could be argued I've been away from civilization all this time.)
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> Alphaoide has been connecting the data to his front end code
[5:08 PM] <davidhouse> that looks great.
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> it's not 100% yet, but,
[5:08 PM] <davidhouse> a lot better than the old version
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> it's working to some degree
[5:08 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, nice!
[5:08 PM] <gsnedders> stevecooley: it looks a bit buggy in safari
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> yes
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> agreed, there's a safari bug
[5:09 PM] <ringmaster> The demo works and everything. Sweet.
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> there's a lot of functionality we can continue to build in, specifically around being able to search for tags like "3 column, left sidebar"
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> that kind of thing
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> er, 2 column, left sidebar..
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> I like the flickr-style paging
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> yes, tagging would be cool :)
[5:10 PM] <masquerade> stevecooley, remind me to talk to you later about the possibility of integrating that and one click installing via elixir later :-P
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> It's all built into the back end already, so
[5:10 PM] <photomatt> add tagging and you can get VC like elixir
[5:10 PM] <davidhouse> the individual theme view is nice.
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> we just need to make a search page
[5:10 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, how is it maintained?
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> Masq: ok
[5:11 PM] <stevecooley> the... backend has a script that will scan the directory of folders and see if there are any new ones that aren't in the database yet. if it finds one, it compiles a list of files in the folder and enters a new record
[5:11 PM] <stevecooley> if it sees that the modification date of a folder is different than what it's expecting, it updates the existing record
[5:11 PM] <photomatt> nice
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> where do the thumbnails come from?
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> Tagging is fairly academic.. you can add new tags, and apply them in any number to any theme
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> how about rating?
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> thumbnails are m-a-n-u-a-l-l-y generated :(
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> maybe when we're smarter we can solve that
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> honestly, some themes aren't very good, so it'd be nice to be able to filter on ratings
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> we have a ratings system in the works as well
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> :)
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> theme screenshots? I dunno. maybe using khtml or something
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> Someone told me the other day it wasn't hard, but I'm skeptical
[5:13 PM] -->| NeuroCide (n=Rehan@host179-57-dsl.dols.net.pk) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:13 PM] <masquerade> stevecooley, themes are able to come with a thumbnail nowadays, so relying on theme authors to provide thumbnails at the very least might be worth it
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, I haven't seen an automatable solution yet
[5:13 PM] <davidhouse> talk to the icapture guy
[5:13 PM] <ringmaster> I spent a day trying to automate it. My solution was very messy.
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, we look for the standard file in the folder
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> but yes, using theme thumbnails when they're there would be good
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> all sounds very cool :)
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> is there anything you need help with?
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> If there's a thumbnail file in the theme folder, per the 1.6 heads up we got, then it uses that
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> otherwise it displays the "no screenshot available" image
[5:15 PM] -->| skippy (n=skippy@skippy.net) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:15 PM] <stevecooley> that's about where we at!
[5:15 PM] <davidhouse> awesome.
[5:15 PM] <photomatt> looking very good
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, a few more things to build to be able to search on tags, and I think it'll qualify for "awesome"
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> shadow and alphaoide have been great to collaborate with on this
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> I know there have been a few others who have been helping with ideas and screenshots as well
[5:17 PM] <stevecooley> *high five*s all around
[5:17 PM] <photomatt> :)
[5:17 PM] <photomatt> any other plugin authors or projects want to pipe up?
[5:18 PM] <io_error> I have a question along those lines.
[5:18 PM] <photomatt> okay
[5:18 PM] <io_error> I hear there's a new plugin competition upcoming, any further details on that?
[5:18 PM] <photomatt> from WLTC, right? I read about it but don't know anything beyond that
[5:19 PM] <masquerade> I think right now they're just looking for judges
[5:19 PM] <davidhouse> i guess it'll be in a similar vein as the previous ones.
[5:19 PM] <davidhouse> i saw a blog post asking for judge volenteers.
[5:19 PM] <io_error> Right, but for six months?!
[5:19 PM] <masquerade> io_error, six months?
[5:19 PM] <skippy> the competition runs for six months
[5:19 PM] <io_error> Yeah, the post seemed to imply the contest would run from like December to June
[5:20 PM] <io_error> 2006
[5:20 PM] <davidhouse> http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2005/10/24/wordpress-programming-competition-2-calling-all-judges/
[5:20 PM] <masquerade> oh, holy crap
[5:20 PM] <skippy> ostensibly to allow authors to better develop better plugins.
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> because it has to be started in the period, right?
[5:20 PM] <davidhouse> "starting at the beginning of December and lasting through the end of May next year"
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> I think that's too long personally, but I see the thinking
[5:20 PM] <io_error> yeah, three months is stretching it, six is insane
[5:21 PM] <ringmaster> Well, it's no worse than the Emmys, for example.
[5:21 PM] <io_error> Oh please.
[5:21 PM] <masquerade> ringmaster, there is a large difference between programming and the Emmys :-P
[5:21 PM] <io_error> We dont' have a Michael Moore
[5:22 PM] <ringmaster> Is that something you wanted?
[5:22 PM] <io_error> uh...
[5:22 PM] <io_error> Let me get back to you on that.
[5:22 PM] <photomatt> well people should leave comments on the entry so mark can incorporate the feedback
[5:24 PM] <davidhouse> "# WordPress non-profit status matt 20:45, 26 Oct 2005 (GMT)"
[5:25 PM] <photomatt> sounds good
[5:25 PM] <photomatt> not much to update there, I have a meeting with Mitch Kapor tomorrow about it so I should have more next week
[5:26 PM] <skippy> photomatt: are you planning 501(c)(3) status?
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> I just wanted to keep everyone updated on the status
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> skippy, absolutely, or going under an already-existing non-profit
[5:26 PM] <skippy> photomatt: "going under" as in "fiscal sponsorship" ?
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> yes
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> are you a non-profit wiz?
[5:26 PM] <skippy> in order to achieve 501(c)(3) in Ohio you need a coporation, with a Board.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> I am in the process of creating a 501(c)(3) here for another project.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> in Ohio, the Board needs to be three human beings. Don't know what California law stipulates.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> and soliciting donations as a 501(c)(3) can be extermely tricky.
[5:27 PM] <photomatt> good point, what do you all think would be a good composition for the board?
[5:28 PM] <skippy> Some states require you to register with their attorneys general in order to solicit donations in that state. Internet soliciations DO count as solicitations in that state.
[5:28 PM] <io_error> a coder, a plugin author, a couple of users...
[5:28 PM] <photomatt> assuming it's 3-5 people
[5:28 PM] <skippy> the Board, ideally, should be people who are not necessarily involved with day-to-day WP
[5:29 PM] <skippy> the Board is for oversight.
[5:29 PM] <photomatt> yes, it's mostly organizational and oversight
[5:29 PM] <skippy> not many people effectively oversee themselves or their peers.
[5:29 PM] <gsnedders> and what would they have to do?
[5:29 PM] <photomatt> at least one person who has significant non-profit experience should be part of it
[5:29 PM] <skippy> gsnedders: they would be the fiscal and legal representation for WordPress
[5:30 PM] <io_error> photomatt: post on the devblog, I'm sure there's a WP user out there who can help
[5:30 PM] <stevecooley> I served on the board of directors of my dot com that never made money, that's essentially non-profiting :)
[5:30 PM] <gsnedders> :)
[5:30 PM] <davidhouse> stevecooley: lol ;)
[5:30 PM] <skippy> there's lots of ways you can form a Board though. Some organizations suggest "member organizations" where a membership elects the Board members.
[5:30 PM] -->| mikelittle (n=mikelitt@spc1-stkp2-4-0-cust182.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:30 PM] <skippy> in that way, you can ensure that the Board represents the passion of the "line staff" appropriately
[5:31 PM] <skippy> outside of that, there's a risk that the Board could take the organization in a direction that the staff/volunteers dislike; and there's little real recourse available at that point.
[5:31 PM] <ringmaster> What does the board control then, exactly?
[5:31 PM] <skippy> ringmaster: money. policy.
[5:31 PM] <skippy> the Board hires and supervises the Executive Director
[5:32 PM] <skippy> the E.D. hires staff.
[5:32 PM] <skippy> the E.D. reports to the Board. They choose which programs and policies get funding, and how much.
[5:32 PM] <skippy> How that will play out in the context of WordPress is up for discussion.
[5:32 PM] <ringmaster> Hmm. A board on non-entrenched people controlling policy on an OS project seems like doom in a can.
[5:33 PM] <skippy> the publisher "Nolo" has a really good non-profit book for those interested.
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> the point of the board isn't to direct WP development
[5:33 PM] <skippy> http://search.nolo.com/cs.html?charset=iso-8859-1&url=http%3A//www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/18D2F5C4-B633-4B64-BF1AD9691D00B894/111/262/&qt=nonprofit&col=b2store&n=2&la=en
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> it's to make sure assets that I currently own can be transferred to an entity that will ensure they're continued usage
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> ex: wordpress.org
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> in case a bus hits me
[5:34 PM] <skippy> it's also to ensure fundraising.
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> skippy, hopefully that can be kept to a minimu
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> m
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> ideally there would be no paid staff or directors
[5:35 PM] <skippy> http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/866819FA-DA0C-486F-B7E88BED8FE26110/111/262/
[5:35 PM] <photomatt> skippy, I'll order that
[5:35 PM] <skippy> i got my copy from the library. =)
[5:35 PM] <skippy> it's not likely you'll need it once you're done. =)
[5:35 PM] <photomatt> if we get the fiscal sponsorship of an already existing non-profit, it makes things a lot easier it seems
[5:37 PM] <skippy> it can take up to six months to receive a ruling from the IRS.
[5:37 PM] <skippy> so, plan accordingly.
[5:37 PM] <photomatt> we can discuss it more next week, thanks for sharing your expertise skippy  :)
[5:37 PM] <skippy> cheers
[5:38 PM] <ringmaster> Yeah, don't get hit by a bus for at least another six months. After that, go for it!
[5:38 PM] <photomatt> heh
[5:38 PM] <gsnedders> lol :)
[5:38 PM] <davidhouse> heh
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> last topic, akismet! any thoughts or feedback on it?
[5:39 PM] <io_error> heh
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> yeah, a question
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> shoot
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> i understand the web service bit. good idea. should have been done ages ago
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> what i don't get is the wp.com tie-in.
[5:39 PM] <io_error> it's called cross-marketing ;)
[5:40 PM] <photomatt> it's a place where people have verified user accounts
[5:41 PM] <io_error> davidhouse: to prevent spammers trying to poison the server
[5:41 PM] <photomatt> and has tons of infrastructure in place
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> right.
[5:41 PM] <io_error> photomatt: yes, a comment
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> to stop spammers spamming the antispammers.
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> makes sense.
[5:41 PM] <photomatt> yes, that's one benefit
[5:41 PM] <io_error> photomatt: I spoke with someone in Australia concerned about network latency. Any plans,a s this thing gets bigger, to mirror it overseas?
[5:42 PM] <--| skippy has left #wordpress-meetup ("Free as in Puppies!")
[5:42 PM] <NeuroCide> yea, codex gets pretty slow to browse here in Pakistan sometimes
[5:42 PM] <photomatt> absolutely
[5:42 PM] <io_error> sweet
[5:42 PM] <ringmaster> Is it then not possible to have a wordpress.com account without a wordpress.com blog?
[5:42 PM] <io_error> does akismet have paying customers yet? :)
[5:43 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: no - but nothing says you have to blog there!
[5:43 PM] <photomatt> yeah, just reserve your name
[5:43 PM] <photomatt> link to your blogs, never update it again
[5:43 PM] <ringmaster> Seems kind of wasteful... That's what I'm already doing.  :)
[5:43 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: eh, bits is bits
[5:43 PM] <NeuroCide> can you use akismet and still have a words list that sends comments straight to moderation?
[5:43 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: yes
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, one blog that's never updated uses almost no resources, it's a rounding error
[5:44 PM] <ringmaster> Can more than one blog use the same API code?
[5:44 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: yes
[5:44 PM] * io_error has the API key in use on two blogs
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, yes, but it's best if you keep it only for blogs you run
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> because the API key is like a password
[5:44 PM] <ringmaster> What's the privacy policy on comments that pass through akismet?
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> still working on that, I got a Real Lawyer to write one and it's very user-unfriendly
[5:45 PM] <NeuroCide> so we're allowed to just link from our wp.com blog to our main blogs and don't have to blog at all at wp.com ?
[5:45 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: sure
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> NeuroCide, sure, you can do whatever you want except spam :)
[5:45 PM] <io_error> oh crap!
[5:45 PM] <io_error> there went my brilliant idea
[5:45 PM] <davidhouse> photomatt: in which case can we have a user-friendly one as well?
[5:45 PM] <gsnedders> photomatt: make sure you get an english tranlation
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> haha
[5:45 PM] <ringmaster> io_error : That's all you ever write!
[5:46 PM] <io_error> LOL
[5:46 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: I write stupidity, not spam
[5:46 PM] <io_error> er, I write ABOUT stupidity
[5:46 PM] <photomatt> basically the gist is, comments are never shown publicly, stats are tracked on a per-blog level but non-spam personal information isn't saved anywhere
[5:46 PM] <ringmaster> Subtle distinction.
[5:46 PM] <NeuroCide> are there any plans on allowing wp.com users to change the css anytime soon?
[5:46 PM] <io_error> <- Department of Homeland Stupidity
[5:47 PM] <photomatt> NeuroCide, customization is on the roadmap
[5:47 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: yes, but it's a lot of work to allow that in a secure manner
[5:47 PM] <ringmaster> Is personally identifiable information stored at the WP.com/akismet.com server?
[5:47 PM] <davidhouse> was scoble a test or an exception?
[5:47 PM] <davidhouse> ah, cool.
[5:47 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: depends on what you enter in the Profile page :)
[5:47 PM] <photomatt> scoble I did manually, he doesn't have anything special
[5:48 PM] <ringmaster> Can a government/other organization tell who was commenting on my blog by examining Akismet records?
[5:48 PM] <io_error> hm, good question
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, we don't log it, so probably not
[5:49 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: only if they were spammers, then :)
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> they would probably go to your host or network provider before akismet
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> (I hope)
[5:49 PM] <io_error> photomatt: if you DO get any such requests, just turn over all the spam ;)
[5:49 PM] <ringmaster> I think these issues are important. I know they are to some clients of mine. I wouldn't be able to suggest using the service without knowing for sure.
[5:50 PM] <NeuroCide> haha, on the wp.com main page, under Hottest Blogs, there's flocksucks.wordpress.com
[5:50 PM] <skeltoac> botd doesn't lie :)
[5:50 PM] <io_error> photomatt: how is Hottest blogs determined?
[5:50 PM] <skeltoac> I can answer that. Traffic.
[5:51 PM] <io_error> I must not be getting any traffic, then
[5:51 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, does that cover everything?
[5:51 PM] <Podz> photomatt, any news on wordpress.com support forums ?
[5:51 PM] <ringmaster> For now.  ;)
[5:52 PM] * io_error hits Manage » Referers
[5:52 PM] <photomatt> Podz, no, but I'm open to suggestions
[5:52 PM] <photomatt> I'm worried about forums getting out of hand if we started them
[5:53 PM]